The Franklin Files

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: The Case of When At First You Don't Succeed.....


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 167
Date:
The Case of When At First You Don't Succeed.....
Permalink  
 


Well we have the facts, we had statements that we know what happend to Johnny and that he is no longer missing - so why look any further?

It is because I looked further that I am writing this investigiation:

At this point before I go any further, I should declare that this thread and accumilated views, opinions and editor reports are F.E.R.P.R.O. to the general public......

So we are armed with the facts and ready to go wading through the years of evidence collected....because of the volume and the restructing of information the best way to get a feel for our case it to do it by Timeline.....

We know the When, Where, but what about the How - lets see what we can find -

Now we just want to focus on the How....the reports and investigations are bleed through so we can make notes of events surrounding and think years so we can stop ourselves jumping back and forth with ideas....

Notes on the How: The preamble to those speculated to be involved in the case.

Who

Where

When

Why



-- Edited by Mariah on Saturday 24th of October 2009 05:37:42 PM

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 167
Date:
Permalink  
 

We want to investigate a timline of events for Johnny's abduction...

In all fairness I can cut to the chase on a few points that we want to make note of...

The reason is to establish a pattern of testimony and character...

We will continue to cover the statements as the Timeline comes to them but it will

help speed thing along without jumping ahead.....

The main focus in the reporting of Johnny's Case is his Mother Noreen Gosch...

It is to early to preview Noreen and her statements....

But it has been established that she published a book "Why Johnny Can't Come Home"...although at this point, I have not been able to procure a copy for my self...I have come accross those who have...

The inquiry of How Johnny Disappeard was our next focus....

We can reiterate he left his house to do his paper route and was never seen again until 1997.....

Some opinions: Data Search Johnny Gosch Abduction 1982 - 109,000+ urls

*********************************

"Johnny went out early in the morning on a Sunday to deliver papers.
He was usually accompanied by his dad; this was his first time alone.
He was seen by another paper carrier sitting on the grass, folding papers.
He was seen by another paper carrier talking to a man in a (blue?) sedan; Johnny said, "That guy is weird. I'm going home."

"The only reasons I can think of that would keep a grown man from resurfacing and reconnecting with family are 1) the family had something to do with the abduction (John Leonard Gosch?), or 2) the now grown man has had done some pretty bad things that are against the law, and stepping forward might cause him to have to answer to those bad things. What else could keep a 40-something man from stepping forward and saying, "Hey. I'm John Gosch, and this is what happened to me when I was 12."

 "A private investigator working Johnny's disappearance believe his kidnapping was part of a government conspiracy"
"This man has told us that at the end of their investigation that there were 834 kids involved that were kidnapped," says James Rothstein. He's talking about a former CIA agent who must remain anonymous."

"Rothstein is a former New York City police detective, now a private investigator working the case for Johnny's mother, Noreen. And within the last couple weeks, Rothstein has uncovered new evidence linking Johnny's kidnapping to child prostitution. "It basically came down to one thing and one thing only. You know, it was money. These kids were being grabbed to satisfy the malignant, twisted, you know, evil depravity of very powerful individuals who have the money," he says."

"Rothstein is talking about individuals who would spend as much as $10,000 to have sex with young boys and girls. And this new evidence points to the involvement of U.S. government officials. "They were using kids to compromise people. And what better way to compromise somebody than get a young boy with a politician or some powerful person that may be in the military or whatever and then you can compromise them and get what ever you want."

"Rothstein now believes the CIA was involved and tried cover it up. "They were assigned to find out if there was an agency connection to it and I am quite sure that if they found one, to make sure it was covered," he says.
And Rothstein's CIA informant says this: "We were specifically ordered to clear our name. This would make the American agency look pretty s****y, like we're all a bunch of f***ing child molesters."

"I was looking at this website (www.johnnygosch.com) that claimed that Johnny was kidnapped along with Anton LaVey's son Michael. Problem is, Anton LaVey never had a son named Michael. His son is named Xerxes and he was born in 1993 and has never been kidnapped. Anton LaVey had one grandson named Stanton Zaharoff LaVey, who has also never been kidnapped. It's amazing how much crazy misinformation there is about the Johnny Gosch case that when you start to look into it, is clearly wrong or doesn't make any sense."

 "I’ve done a quick study to familiarize myself with it. During the course of this, I listened to Mrs. Gosch’s interview about her son’s tragic case as presented on You Tube. One point of her recounting of the events of that day that jumped out to me was that she noted that never before during the many months that Johnny had had his paper route had the boy not wakened his dad to ask him to help him. This was the first (and as it turns out, tragically the last) time he had went on the route alone, except for the family’s pet dog."

"If Johnny was abducted, I would guess that his kidnapper must have been a big man or that there had been more than one kidnapper. If they had wanted the boy as part of the organized pedophilia ring that Mrs. Gosch positions as responsible for her son’s abduction, it seems strange they would go to the trouble of stalking a kid already so tall for his age as his sinister "marketability" period would seemed to have been of a rather limited duration, even more so than it would be for smaller kids."

"However, I shall try posing one more simple question. Has anyone commented on the seeming coincidence that the one and only day Johnny Gosch went out to deliver his papers alone (for reasons his mother says she doesn’t know to this day) without his father just happened to be the day when someone was waiting to abduct him (or perhaps any suitable boy)?"

"Although I am highly skeptical concerning most of Mrs. Gosch’s seemingly imaginative theories and allegations, there is one thing I do agree with her on. The claim that Johnny had run away seems highly improbable. If he were a runaway, his decision must have been oddly spontaneous. He first gathers his papers at the drop off point and then on the spur of the moment decides he’s going to take off?"

"I've read the book, but I recall that Mrs. Gosch said that she believed that her son was set up to be kidnapped because she was told as much by the people who kidnapped him. They also told her when the kidnapping of Eugene Martin would take place. She also hinted, or maybe more than hinted, that her husband had actually arranged for the kidnapping, which would account for the father not being present. I thought that she said that Johnny had asked if he could go alone, and Mrs. Gosch said no, but Mr. Gosch said yes."

"So I suppose the answer to your question would be that, according to Mrs. Gosch, it wasn't a coincidence. It was planned that Johnny would be alone that morning."

"Mrs. Gosch actually alleges her ex-husband, the boy’s own father, sold him into sexual slavery? I take it theirs was not an amicable divorce."

"I believe Johnny was big for his age; at age 12 I think he was something like 5'7 and 135/140 pounds. I remember there was a discussion about how difficult it would be to snatch a kid that size off the street. Noreen says in her book that Johnny was subdued somehow, either through tazering or chloroform (or both), I don't remember."

"She hints, at the very least, that John Gosch Sr. (Leonard Gosch) had a hand in Johnny's abduction. She says there were some "hang up" phone calls before the abduction, but at around the time that Johnny would have been abducted Leonard actually spoke to someone briefly on the telephone, then said that it was a wrong number (again, I may have some details off; it's been awhile since I've read the book). There were some other things, including the trip to Offutt, that made her suspicious of her husband. I've heard some other things, too, about a property that they owned that may have been used for nefarious purposes. And there is the story that she went to visit someone who was connected with the abduction in prison, and he said he'd met her before. She hadn't, and found out that her ex-husband had brought a "look alike" to the prison and passed this person off as Noreen. There's a photo in Noreen's book, I think."

"Johnny Gosch looked what he was: German. He looked like a big-boned, bull-necked, freckled-face farm boy"

"Someone stated that Mrs. Gosch had stated that there had been discussion between Johnny and his father and mother about his being permitted to do his route alone and that Mr. Gosch had been in favor and Mrs. Gosch opposed."

"What follows is the link to the short version (on You Tube) of Mrs. Gosch’s interview regarding her son’s disappearance. If one begins listening at around 4:00 into the video, one can hear her clearly and unequivocally say that to this very day she has no idea why Johnny went out on his route alone that fateful day, and she makes no mention of any previous discussion with Johnny regarding the point:"

"That's odd. From what she wrote in her book, I assumed that Johnny went alone because he wanted to, or maybe his dad told him that it was, in fact, okay, even though Noreen had said no. Here's what she wrote in the book (it starts on p. 2):"

"Johnny jumped up saying 'I am going to bed, I have to do the paper route in the morning before we go to the lake.' Before saying goodnight to everyone he asked 'Can I do my paper route alone in the morning?' His dad said 'I guess it will be okay." I immediately said 'No, your dad will go with you as always. It is so dark at 6 a.m., and I don't want you on the street alone.'"

"Then she says Johnny tells her he loves her and goes to bed, and that's the last she saw him."

"She also talks about the phone call she says her husband received, that he answered the phone early that morning and said "Yes, alright, yes, alright, okay," then hung up. He told her it was a wrong number. They had been receiving hang up calls at the same time for the past four weeks, but apparently her husband had never spoken to the person on the other line before."

*********************

We have come across some data that not only reflects the statements of How but Why...

We are also introduced to some new names of persons invovled in the case worth

following up...

So lets go through the data and check for inconsistancy.....so we can make notes on the facts........



-- Edited by Mariah on Saturday 24th of October 2009 05:43:35 PM

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 167
Date:
Permalink  
 

Main Entry: in·con·sis·ten·cy

Pronunciation: \ˌin-kən-ˈsis-tən(t)-sē\

Function: noun

Date: 1647

1 : an instance of being inconsistent
2 : the quality or state of being inconsistent

Main Entry: in·con·sis·tent

Pronunciation: \-tənt\

Function: adjective

Date: 1620

: lacking consistency: as a : not compatible with another fact or claim <inconsistent statements> b : containing incompatible elements <an inconsistent argument> c : incoherent or illogical in thought or actions : changeable d : not satisfiable by the same set of values for the unknowns <inconsistent equations> <inconsistent inequalities>

— in·con·sis·tent·ly adverb

 

Now we have some input to consider How and Why Johnny disappeared on Sunday September 5, 1982....

We have the Facts....

We have Noreen Gosch published statements in her book...Timeline jump

We have questions raised on the facts...

We have new names come forward with involvment in the case...Timeline to extablish

 

Lets start with Noreen's published statements:

**************************************

1. "Johnny went out early in the morning on a Sunday to deliver papers.
He was usually accompanied by his dad; this was his first time alone.
He was seen by another paper carrier sitting on the grass, folding papers.
He was seen by another paper carrier talking to a man in a (blue?) sedan; Johnny said, "That guy is weird. I'm going home."

2. "I’ve done a quick study to familiarize myself with it. During the course of this, I listened to Mrs. Gosch’s interview about her son’s tragic case as presented on You Tube. One point of her recounting of the events of that day that jumped out to me was that she noted that never before during the many months that Johnny had had his paper route had the boy not wakened his dad to ask him to help him. This was the first (and as it turns out, tragically the last) time he had went on the route alone, except for the family’s pet dog."

3. "However, I shall try posing one more simple question. Has anyone commented on the seeming coincidence that the one and only day Johnny Gosch went out to deliver his papers alone (for reasons his mother says she doesn’t know to this day) without his father just happened to be the day when someone was waiting to abduct him (or perhaps any suitable boy)?"

4. "Although I am highly skeptical concerning most of Mrs. Gosch’s seemingly imaginative theories and allegations, there is one thing I do agree with her on. The claim that Johnny had run away seems highly improbable. If he were a runaway, his decision must have been oddly spontaneous. He first gathers his papers at the drop off point and then on the spur of the moment decides he’s going to take off?"

5. "I've read the book, but I recall that Mrs. Gosch said that she believed that her son was set up to be kidnapped because she was told as much by the people who kidnapped him. They also told her when the kidnapping of Eugene Martin would take place. She also hinted, or maybe more than hinted, that her husband had actually arranged for the kidnapping, which would account for the father not being present. I thought that she said that Johnny had asked if he could go alone, and Mrs. Gosch said no, but Mr. Gosch said yes."

6. "So I suppose the answer to your question would be that, according to Mrs. Gosch, it wasn't a coincidence. It was planned that Johnny would be alone that morning."

7. "Mrs. Gosch actually alleges her ex-husband, the boy’s own father, sold him into sexual slavery? I take it theirs was not an amicable divorce."

8. "She hints, at the very least, that John Gosch Sr. (Leonard Gosch) had a hand in Johnny's abduction. She says there were some "hang up" phone calls before the abduction, but at around the time that Johnny would have been abducted Leonard actually spoke to someone briefly on the telephone, then said that it was a wrong number (again, I may have some details off; it's been awhile since I've read the book). There were some other things, including the trip to Offutt, that made her suspicious of her husband. I've heard some other things, too, about a property that they owned that may have been used for nefarious purposes. And there is the story that she went to visit someone who was connected with the abduction in prison, and he said he'd met her before. She hadn't, and found out that her ex-husband had brought a "look alike" to the prison and passed this person off as Noreen. There's a photo in Noreen's book, I think."

9. "Someone stated that Mrs. Gosch had stated that there had been discussion between Johnny and his father and mother about his being permitted to do his route alone and that Mr. Gosch had been in favor and Mrs. Gosch opposed."

10. "What follows is the link to the short version (on You Tube) of Mrs. Gosch’s interview regarding her son’s disappearance. If one begins listening at around 4:00 into the video, one can hear her clearly and unequivocally say that to this very day she has no idea why Johnny went out on his route alone that fateful day, and she makes no mention of any previous discussion with Johnny regarding the point:"

11. "That's odd. From what she wrote in her book, I assumed that Johnny went alone because he wanted to, or maybe his dad told him that it was, in fact, okay, even though Noreen had said no. Here's what she wrote in the book (it starts on p. 2):"

"Johnny jumped up saying 'I am going to bed, I have to do the paper route in the morning before we go to the lake.' Before saying goodnight to everyone he asked 'Can I do my paper route alone in the morning?' His dad said 'I guess it will be okay." I immediately said 'No, your dad will go with you as always. It is so dark at 6 a.m., and I don't want you on the street alone.'"

"Then she says Johnny tells her he loves her and goes to bed, and that's the last she saw him."

"She also talks about the phone call she says her husband received, that he answered the phone early that morning and said "Yes, alright, yes, alright, okay," then hung up. He told her it was a wrong number. They had been receiving hang up calls at the same time for the past four weeks, but apparently her husband had never spoken to the person on the other line before."

*****************************************************

We can see right off that there are inconsistancies to the recanting of events from Noreen Gosch in both written statments and youtube live media interviews....

We can establish that the evening before was the last time that Johnny was seen by his parentsthat we are aware until 1997......

We can notice the discrepencies of witness retelling, number of witness reports, and that Noreen did not know what Johnny was wearing since she did not see him leave the house...we are to surmise that it was witness reporting that gave his clothing details....

We can also surmise that even tho it is not reported that there was some tension in the home...between at least Noreen and her husband and possibly Johnny and his father...we can only speculate as to why suddenly his father did not want to be with his son when it was a regular occurance....



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 167
Date:
Permalink  
 

We can now check into some of the details that can give us further information of his abductor/s....

1. "If Johnny was abducted, I would guess that his kidnapper must have been a big man or that there had been more than one kidnapper. If they had wanted the boy as part of the organized pedophilia ring that Mrs. Gosch positions as responsible for her son’s abduction, it seems strange they would go to the trouble of stalking a kid already so tall for his age as his sinister "marketability" period would seemed to have been of a rather limited duration, even more so than it would be for smaller kids."

2. "Johnny Gosch looked what he was: German. He looked like a big-boned, bull-necked, freckled-face farm boy" 

3. "I believe Johnny was big for his age; at age 12 I think he was something like 5'7 and 135/140 pounds. I remember there was a discussion about how difficult it would be to snatch a kid that size off the street. Noreen says in her book that Johnny was subdued somehow, either through tazering or chloroform (or both), I don't remember."

4. "A private investigator working Johnny's disappearance believe his kidnapping was part of a government conspiracy"
"This man has told us that at the end of their investigation that there were 834 kids involved that were kidnapped," says James Rothstein. He's talking about a former CIA agent who must remain anonymous."

5. "Rothstein is a former New York City police detective, now a private investigator working the case for Johnny's mother, Noreen. And within the last couple weeks, Rothstein has uncovered new evidence linking Johnny's kidnapping to child prostitution. "It basically came down to one thing and one thing only. You know, it was money. These kids were being grabbed to satisfy the malignant, twisted, you know, evil depravity of very powerful individuals who have the money," he says."6. 

"Rothstein is a former New York City police detective, now a private investigator working the case for Johnny's mother, Noreen. And within the last couple weeks, Rothstein has uncovered new evidence linking Johnny's kidnapping to child prostitution. "It basically came down to one thing and one thing only. You know, it was money. These kids were being grabbed to satisfy the malignant, twisted, you know, evil depravity of very powerful individuals who have the money," he says."

7. "Rothstein is talking about individuals who would spend as much as $10,000 to have sex with young boys and girls. And this new evidence points to the involvement of U.S. government officials. "They were using kids to compromise people. And what better way to compromise somebody than get a young boy with a politician or some powerful person that may be in the military or whatever and then you can compromise them and get what ever you want."

8. "Rothstein now believes the CIA was involved and tried cover it up. "They were assigned to find out if there was an agency connection to it and I am quite sure that if they found one, to make sure it was covered," he says.
And Rothstein's CIA informant says this: "We were specifically ordered to clear our name. This would make the American agency look pretty s****y, like we're all a bunch of f***ing child molesters."

 

************************************

We now have several movtives and resonable doubts-

We also have 2 new persons invovled, Leonard Gosch and James Rothstein....

We can place Leonard Gosch to the evening before in 1982, and can start moving along our Timeline as new evidence has been introduced....



-- Edited by Mariah on Saturday 24th of October 2009 09:13:00 PM

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 167
Date:
Permalink  
 

A this point very little shows up on Leonard...but we have seen many hints from
Noreen as to her concerns Leonard....We have come across Noreens letter whch was read at the 1985 Committee of Missing Childrens hearing....Which also
introduces a new name invovlement of Paul Bishop...

As we search for Jim Rothsein were are jumping around in Timeline events

but this will give us some details to his actions in the case:

*******************************

 

Jim Rothstein, a retired New York Police Detective who spent more than 35 years in the force, much of it investigating child slavery, pedophile rings, agrees that the evidence is strong that Gannon is actually Johnny Gosch.

"To me Gannon looks like Johnny," says Rothstein. "Everything just fits - the profile, the M.O., everything."

Rothstein has been involved as a private investigator on the Gosch case for the past several years, and says he is working to get the final proof needed to determine Gannon's true identity.

"We're working on getting a tail on him and getting a DNA sample to test," he says. "I still can't figure out why no-one knows where he (Gannon) was for 10 years."

There have been some Internet postings that give a timeline of Gannon's life, but according to Rothstein they are based on flimsy information that is not to be trusted.

"Records are easy to create," he says. "Maybe this Guckert kid died and someone took over his identity. If it is not Johnny Gosch, then it's one of the other kids like Johnny Gosch."

Says Noreen: "If all this is true, I don't think he was ready to be exposed just yet."




__________________
«First  <  1 2 3  >  Last»  | Page of 3  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard