The Franklin Files

Omega · Guru

The Curse

Mariah · Senior Member

Are curses a verbal oath or an Enchantment spell?

Omega can you tell us what you think the family curse does to
your family?

Omega · Guru

Hi Mariah

All I know is that it is from my fathers side of the family, he has a
Romany branch to his family tree. I asked a few years ago about
who cursed his family, but he said he did not know what I was
talking about so I let it go. Just thought unxplained things could
be a curse.

I have heard stories about the Hope Diamond being cursed. Do
not remember who owns it or what the curse is. Maybe I can
find it online.

Fairy tales and Fables might talk about curses. I never looked at Enchantment like it was a curse. Lots of Enchanted stories about princesses. What was the one about a prince being turned into a frog?

Omega · Guru

Got curious about the Hope Diamond and did a search:

Alleged Effect of the Hope Diamond's Curse

(as reported in newspapers of 1911 and/or in Maye Yohe's 1929 fanciful book - The Mystery of the Hope Diamond)

Many (if not most) of these events are unsubstantiated:

Jean Baptiste Tavernier
Steals the diamond from the breast of a "pagan goddess."
Is killed by wild dogs.

Louis XIV
Dies of gangrene.

Marquise de Montespan
Mistress of Louis XIV.
Wears diamond.
Loses favor with the king.

Nicholas Fouquet
Guardian of French crown jewels.
Wears diamond for a festive occasion.
Is executed by order of the King.

Louis XVI
Loses his head.

Marie Antoinette
Loses her head.

Princess de Lamballe
Wears the diamond.
Torn to pieces by a mob during the French Revolution.

Wilhelm Fals
Jeweler who supposedly re-cuts the French Blue to disguise its identity.
Stone stolen by his son, Fals is ruined.
Killed by his son, Hendrik.

Hendrik Fals
Commits suicide in 1830.

Francis Beaulieu
Sells the stone.
Dies in misery and want.

George IV
Supposedly buys the re-cut diamond.
Dies in great debt.

Henry Philip Hope
Owner of the Hope Diamond.
Suffers a long series of misfortunes, including the death of his only son.
Dies without a direct heir.

Lord Francis Thomas Hope
Dies bankrupt.
His wife, May Yohe runs off with an army officer.
Forced to sell the Hope Diamond to Simon Frankel for $168,000.

May Yohe
Wife of Francis Thomas Hope.
Dies in poverty.

Simon Frankel
Jeweler who buys Hope in 1901.
His company suffers financial troubles during the Depression.

Jacques Colet
Undocumented owner.
Afflicted with madness ands commits suicide.

Prince Ivan Kanitovski
Undocumented owner.
Murdered by Russian revolutionaries.

Mile. Lorens Ladue of Follies Bergere
Borrows the diamond from her lover, Ivan, then is murdered by him.

Simon Montharides
Greek jewel broker.
Sells diamond to Sultan Abdul Hamid.
Thrown over a precipice while riding with wife & child - all killed.

Habib Bey (aka Selim Habib)
Persian diamond merchant who buys the Hope Diamond for the Sultan of Turkey.
Drowns in the sinking of the French steamer Seyne of Singapore, November, 1909

Sultan Abdul Hamid II
Loses Ottoman Empire in an army revolt.

Abu Sabir
Polishes the diamond for the Sultan.
Imprisoned and tortured.

Kulub Bey
Guardian of the diamond for the Sultan.
Hanged by Turkish mob.

Jehver Agha
An official of the Turkish revolutionary government.
Attempts to steal the Hope Diamond.
Hanged.

C.H. Rosenau
Diamond merchant who sells the Hope Diamond to Cartier.

Pierre Cartier
Sells Hope Diamond to Evalyn Walsh McLean.

Evalyn Walsh McLean
Sued for $180,000 by Cartier (for payment of the diamond).
Mother-in-law dies after purchase.
Son dies in auto accident.
Husband dies in mental hospital.
Daughter dies of drug overdose.
Loses fortune.

Harry Winston
Purchases Hope Diamond
Donates it to the Smithsonian Institution.

James Todd
Mailman who delivers Hope Diamond to the Smithsonian.
Leg is crushed in a truck accident.
Head is injured in car accident.
House burns down.

The Curse of the Hope Diamond
Fast Facts:
Hope Diamond
45.52 carats

VS1

Dark blue in color

Size: 21.78 mm wide, 25.60 mm long, 12.00 mm deep

After exposure to ultraviolet light it phosphoresces red (most other blue diamonds phospheresce light blue)

Surrounded by 16 white diamonds plus an additional 45 white diamonds which make up the necklace chain

According to the legend, a curse befell the large, blue diamond when it was plucked (i.e. stolen) from an idol in India - a curse that foretold bad luck and death not only for the owner of the diamond but for all who touched it.
Whether or not you believe in the curse, the Hope diamond has intrigued people for centuries. Its perfect quality, its large size, and its rare color make it strikingly unique and beautiful. Add to this a varied history which includes being owned by King Louis XIV, stolen during the French Revolution, sold to earn money for gambling, worn to raise money for charity, and then finally donated to the Smithsonian Institution. The Hope diamond is truly unique.

Is there really a curse? Where has the Hope diamond been? Why was such a valuable gem donated to the Smithsonian?

Taken from the Forehead of an Idol
The legend is said to begin with a theft. Several centuries ago, a man named Tavernier made a trip to India. While there, he stole a large blue diamond from the forehead (or eye) of a statue of the Hindu goddess Sita. For this transgression, according to the legend, Tavernier was torn apart by wild dogs on a trip to Russia (after he had sold the diamond). This was the first horrible death attributed to the curse.
How much of this is true? In 1642 a man by the name of Jean Baptiste Tavernier, a French jeweler who traveled extensively, visited India and bought a 112 3/16 carat blue diamond. (This diamond was much larger than the present weight of the Hope diamond because the Hope has been cut down at least twice in the past three centuries.) The diamond is believed to have come from the Kollur mine in Golconda, India.

Tavernier continued to travel and arrived back in France in 1668, twenty-six years after he bought the large, blue diamond. French King Louis XIV, the "Sun King," ordered Tavernier presented at court. From Tavernier, Louis XIV bought the large, blue diamond as well as forty-four large diamonds and 1,122 smaller diamonds. Tavernier was made a noble and died at he age 84 in Russia (it is not known how he died).1

According to Susanne Patch, author of Blue Mystery: The Story of the Hope Diamond, the shape of the diamond was unlikely to have been an eye (or on the forehead) of an idol.2

In 1673, King Louis XIV decided to re-cut the diamond to enhance its brilliance (the previous cut had been to enhance size and not brilliance). The newly cut gem was 67 1/8 carats. Louis XIV officially named it the "Blue Diamond of the Crown" and would often wear the diamond on a long ribbon around his neck.

In 1749, Louis XIV's great-grandson, Louis XV, was king and ordered the crown jeweler to make a decoration for the Order of the Golden Fleece, using the blue diamond and the Cote de Bretagne (a large red spinel thought at the time to be a ruby).3 The resulting decoration was extremely ornate and large.

Stolen!
When Louis XV died, his grandson, Louis XVI, became king with Marie Antoinette as his queen. According to the legend, Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI were beheaded during the French Revolution because of the blue diamond's curse.
Considering that King Louis XIV and King Louis XV had both owned and worn the blue diamond a number of times and have not been set down in legend as tormented by the curse, it is difficult to say that all those who owned or touched the gem would suffer an ill fate. Though it is true that Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI were beheaded, it seems that it had much more to do with their extravagance and the French Revolution than a curse on the diamond. Plus, these two royals were certainly not the only ones beheaded during the Reign of Terror.

During the French Revolution, the crown jewels (including the blue diamond) were taken from the royal couple after they attempted to flee France in 1791. The jewels were placed in the Garde-Meuble but were not well guarded.

From September 12 to September 16, 1791, the Garde-Meuble was repeatedly robbed, without notice from officials until September 17. Though most of the crown jewels were soon recovered, the blue diamond was not.

Why is it called the "Hope diamond"?
There is some evidence that the blue diamond resurfaced in London by 1813 and was owned by a jeweler Daniel Eliason by 1823.4 No one is sure that the blue diamond in London was the same one stolen from the Garde-Meuble because the one in London was of a different cut. Yet, most people feel the rarity and perfectness of the French blue diamond and the blue diamond that appeared in London makes it likely that someone re-cut the French blue diamond in the hopes of hiding its origin. The blue diamond that surfaced in London was estimated at 44 carats.
There is some evidence that shows King George IV of England bought the blue diamond from Daniel Eliason and upon King George's death, the diamond was sold to pay off debts.

By 1939, possibly earlier, the blue diamond was in the possession of Henry Philip Hope, from whom the Hope diamond has taken its name.

The Hope family is said to have been tainted with the diamond's curse. According to the legend, the once-rich Hopes went bankrupt because of the Hope diamond.

Is this true? Henry Philip Hope was one of the heirs of the banking firm Hope & Co. which was sold in 1813. Henry Philip Hope became a collector of fine art and gems, thus he acquired the large blue diamond that was soon to carry his family's name. Since he had never married, Henry Philip Hope left his estate to his three nephews when he died in 1839. The Hope diamond went to the oldest of the nephews, Henry Thomas Hope.

Henry Thomas Hope married and had one daughter; his daughter soon grew up, married and had five children. When Henry Thomas Hope died in 1862 at the age of 54, the Hope diamond stayed in the possession of Hope's widow. But when Henry Thomas Hope's widow died, she passed the Hope diamond on to her grandson, the second oldest son, Lord Francis Hope (he took the name Hope in 1887).

Because of gambling and high spending, Francis Hope requested from the court in 1898 for him to sell the Hope diamond (Francis was only given access to the life interest on his grandmother's estate). His request was denied. In 1899, an appeal case was heard and again his request was denied. In both cases, Francis Hope's siblings opposed selling the diamond. In 1901, on an appeal to the House of Lords, Francis Hope was finally granted permission to sell the diamond.

As for the curse, three generations of Hopes went untainted by the curse and it was most likely Francis Hope's gambling, rather than the curse, that caused his bankruptcy.

The Hope Diamond as a Good Luck Charm
It was Simon Frankel, an American jeweler, who bought the Hope diamond in 1901 and who brought the diamond to the United States.
The diamond changed hands several times during the next several years, ending with Pierre Cartier.

Pierre Cartier believed he had found a buyer in the rich Evalyn Walsh McLean. Evalyn first saw the Hope diamond in 1910 while visiting Paris with her husband. Since Mrs. McLean had previously told Pierre Cartier that objects usually considered bad luck turned into good luck for her, Cartier made sure to emphasize the Hope diamond's negative history. Yet, since Mrs. McLean did not like the diamond in its current mounting, she didn't buy it.

A few months later, Pierre Cartier arrived in the U.S. and asked Mrs. McLean to keep the Hope diamond for the weekend. Having reset the Hope diamond into a new mounting (picture), Carter hoped she would grow attached to it over the weekend. He was right and Evalyn McLean bought the Hope diamond.

Susanne Patch, in her book on the Hope diamond, wonders if perhaps Pierre Cartier didn't start the concept of a curse. According to Patch's research, the legend and concept of a curse attached to the diamond did not appear in print until the twentieth century.5

Evalyn McLean wore the diamond all the time. According to one story, it took a lot of persuading by Mrs. McLean's doctor to get her to take off the necklace even for a goiter operation.6

Though Evalyn McLean wore the Hope diamond as a good luck charm, others saw the curse strike her too. McLean's first born son, Vinson, died in a car crash when he was only nine. McLean suffered another major loss when her daughter committed suicide at age 25. In addition to all this, Evalyn McLean's husband was declared insane and confined to a mental institution until his death in 1941.

Whether this was part of a curse is hard to say, though it does seem like a lot for one person to suffer.

Though Evalyn McLean had wanted her jewelry to go to her grandchildren when they were older, her jewelry was put on sale in 1949, two years after her death, in order to settle debts from her estate.

The Hope Diamond is Donated
When the Hope diamond went on sale in 1949, it was bought by Harry Winston, a New York jeweler. Winston offered the diamond, on numerous occasions, to be worn at balls to raise money for charity.
Though some believe that Winston donated the Hope diamond to rid himself of the curse, Winston donated the diamond because he had long believed in creating a national jewel collection. Winston donated the Hope diamond to the Smithsonian Institution in 1958 to be the focal point of a newly established gem collection as well as to inspire others to donate.

On November 10, 1958, the Hope diamond traveled in a plain brown box, by registered mail, and was met by a large group of people at the Smithsonian who celebrated its arrival.

The Hope diamond is currently on display as part of the National Gem and Mineral Collection in the National Museum of Natural History for all to see.

Omega · Guru

Found this about Persephone being cursed this is the Greek Myth which
was taken from the Sumerian Myths. Would this be a take off of
Inanna going to the Underworld. It is the Wheel of the Year. The
change of seasons.

Persephone, daughter of Demeter, was playing and picking flowers one day in the fields with the daughters of Oceanus. Unknown to her, but sanctioned by Zeus, Hades was setting a trap for her. She came upon a narcissus, the flower of the underworld, which was blooming so beautifully that she could not resist reaching out to pluck it. Immediately, the ground split open to allow Hades in his chariot to emerge into the field and abduct the girl. No one heard her cries except for Hecate and Helius.

Demeter, aware that something had gone wrong, began to search for her daughter, but no one was willing to to tell her what had befallen Persephone. After wandering ten days without nourishment, she met Hecate, who told her that she had heard Persephone's cry but had not seen what had transpired. So, the two of them decided to seek out Helius, the watchman of the gods. Helius, pitying Demeter, told her the truth: Zeus had allowed Hades to kidnap her daughter.

At this news, Demeter fell into deep sadness and removed herself from Olympus, bitter at Zeus. While she was resting at the Well of the Maidens in the town of Eleusis, she encountered the grand-daughters of Eleusis himself, who did not recognize the goddess because she was disguised. Demeter told them that she was from Crete and had been carried here by pirates and was now looking for employment. In due course, Demeter was hired as the household nurse for the girls' family and was given the care of girls' youngest sibling, a boy. Secretly, Demeter fed the boy ambrosia, nectar of the gods, and placed him into a fire each night, slowly turning him into an immortal. Her plot, however, was uncovered by the mother, who thought Demeter was trying to kill the child. In anger, Demeter informed her that her son could have become immortal, but now would only live to an old age. Then, the goddess demanded that a temple and altar be built to her on a hill, that she might teach the people of Eleusis her mysteries.

There, Demeter secluded herself and sent a terrible famine upon the world. No plants grew, no seeds were successfully planted, and no field could be properly plowed. The gods went to her and begged her to stop the famine, but she refused, saying that the world would starve and the gods would go without offerings until she was allowed to see her daugheter once more. Finally, Zeus relented and ordered his brother Hades to allow Persephone to return to the world of the living.

Hades slyly agreed, but not before tricking Persephone to eat some seeds from a pomegranate, a fruit of the underworld, thus tying her forever to him. However, the girl did not know this, and she happily returned to her mother. The reunion was joyous, but Demeter quickly ascertained that Persephone had eaten food from the underworld. Thus, the girl was cursed to return to Hades' side for one third of the year, but spend the remaining two thirds in Olympus with her mother.

Demeter, however, agreed to this compromise and caused the earth to flourish with plants once more. She also taught her rites at Eleusis, mysteries so secret that none who were initiated into them could speak of them or the details of their blessing.